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Thread: here's a thought game -- a case for artificial beings (this is long... but worth it)

  1. #1
    HB Forum Owner SHATOUSHKA's Avatar
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    this experiment is divided up into a few
    sub-categories and should be analyzed as
    a whole. the scenario is divided in such a
    way as to give full potential to each
    segregating segment.
    ____________________________________________

    THE CAGE

    imagine that on the day you were born, you were placed into a box.

    <ul type="square">[*] the only light you saw
    was that which was present when the box was
    opened[*] the only sound you heard was the sound
    of your 'owners' when the box was opened or
    when they spoke just outside of the box[*] the only things you learned was that
    of what your owners told you, and what
    you heard being spoken on the other side of
    the box[*] the only thing you could touch were the
    limited small items placed in the box every
    so often[/list]

    ... you were never removed from the box.

    as time grows on, you grow larger...
    and the box is replaced with a cage just
    large enough to let you move around. this
    cage is adjusted in size as you grow...
    but again, only just large enough for you
    to lay down and move around in.

    though you can see and hear better than in
    the box, you are still confined to a cage.
    you are not allowed tv nor radio... though,
    upon occasion you are allowed to listen
    to some music, as selected by your owners.

    you are allowed food and drink and the usual
    'necessities' as it is to 'live like a human' (bed, et al)

    you never leave the cage and the cage is
    never moved from the location it was first
    placed in... except on the slight occasion
    when your owners have no choice but to
    carry you along somewhere.

    you are never allowed to complain or act in
    such a manner as to bring condescention upon
    your owners... for they alone have the power
    to end you.

    THE OTHERS

    this is how you learn of a world outside of
    the room the cage is in. this is when you
    realize that there is SOMEthing other than
    the cage, your owners, and all that you have
    seen so far.

    upon these 'trips' you see others like you...
    though not like you, for they are free.
    since you do not understand 'free' nor the
    idea that there is more knowledge that you
    do not know, you view these 'others' as an
    outside force... since you do not know anything
    of them, you assume they know nothing of you.

    <ul type="square">[*] you are not allowed socialization outside of the cage... ever.[*] though you can speak, you are only allowed
    to speak when directed to do so.[*] though you are allowed to speak to 'others',
    you are not allowed to discuss your cage
    or your owners[/list]

    when holding discourse with the 'others'
    you find yourself lacking in obvious communication
    skills as well as the inability to comprehend
    what is being said to you. the 'others' are
    just as strange and distant as your owners.

    THE PROGRESSION

    you are held in the cage for 20 years...
    undergoing the exact process as described
    above. somewhere in the middle of the
    experiment you realize that your every action
    is being watched, recorded, analyzed, and
    redirected.

    (let's add another extreme twist to the game [img]graemlins/devil.gif[/img] )

    suppose that every day in the box/cage,
    you are beaten. though no reason is given
    you assume it is because you are different
    and because you cannot seem to figure out
    how to behave like a normal human.

    suppose that in addition to this torment,
    you are also verbally and socially abused
    by the 'others'.

    ___________________________________________

    DAY 7300 (give or take)

    it is your 20th year, you are set free.

    as the one in the cage:
    <ul type="square">[*] how do you react to your owners?[*] how do you react to the 'others'?[*] how do you feel about yourself?[*] how do you view your first 20 years?[*] how do you feel about the rest of your life?[*] how do you treat new 'others'?[*] what is the first thing you'd do when released?[/list]

    as a normal poster:
    <ul type="square">[*] how do you view this experiment?[*] what would you suggest to be done differently?[*] how do you view the 'one in the cage'?[*] how do you view the owners/others?[/list]

    the first set of Qs asks you to be the 'one
    in the cage' and asks you to determine your
    feelings and actions after day 7300.
    as a normal poster (as you are now), how
    do you justify your feelings/actions as the
    'one in the cage'?

  2. #2
    Inactive Member zelazny's Avatar
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    how do you react to your owners?
    > Shy away, submit to owners, etc. (People who tend
    > to be abused generally believe that behaviour is 'normal.)
    > Even moreso since i know that it happens to others.

    how do you react to the 'others'?
    > That would be the wierdest thing there is, i could never connect to the owners, i mean, they feed me, and keep me alive, there is this love-hate thing i have with them, mostly i love them i think. but the others, they are so much like me, but they're not me. Which is odd, because they are not me. I would not seek any conversation with them.

    how do you feel about yourself?
    > How do you mean feel about myself? There is only me! I have never learned to think about others, maybe about getting beaten, but it's hard to do introspection when you were never able to sharpen your mind on judging others.


    how do you view your first 20 years?
    > At coming out of the cage? Something simple, not all fun, but at least i could grasp that.
    > I am only starting to grasp the idea of not being in a cage, and i think it would frighten me.


    how do you feel about the rest of your life?
    > Frightened, unsure, what to do, why am i here.
    > Can't i go back in?

    how do you treat new 'others'?
    > Hmm.. Good one, if i'd assume mistreatment as being 'normal' i'd use it on others, i mean, not much chances to learn empathy when you're in cage.


    what is the first thing you'd do when released?
    > Get my own cage. Sleep in it, use it as a save haven from where i can explore life. If life doesn't really turn out to be as it is, i'd curl up in there, might die from malnourishment if it's really bad, or just perpetuate my existence in that safe, good old cage. Maybe add in a few luxuries if i'm optimistic, or if i dare to think 'outside the box'.


    as a normal poster:


    how do you view this experiment?
    > Inhuman, but then again, quite human.

    what would you suggest to be done differently?
    > The scientist in me is just screaming out for control groups and alternate versions, E.G. cages with tv-sets to teach some basic human interaction, maybe stimulate that empathy a bit, etc.

    how do you view the 'one in the cage'?
    > To be honest, i'd feel sorry for him/her, but to be honest yet again i've always wondered how people would react if i would put them in certain enviroments from birth.
    Even though my enviroments were a little more.. open, they were potentially more dangerous, but a prison is the safest place to be anyway. (This kind of prison, not the kind where you have to bend over to get the soap jason)

  3. #3
    Senior Hostboard Member Hannibal's Avatar
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    I'm afraid I can't answer this.
    Because, like usual, there are variables that simply aren't accounted for in this small of time frame, and... I don't see what this has to do with artificial intelligence.
    but... errrm.... I guess I think too much like a psychologist for this [img]biggrin.gif[/img]

  4. #4
    Inactive Member zelazny's Avatar
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    I like this topic.
    As far as artificial intelligence goes, i'm not sure where you want to take it, but there are some parallels to childhood, for instance.

  5. #5
    Inactive Member SmokinLizzies's Avatar
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    I don't feel like answering 20 questions, so I'm just gonna give one broad answer.

    There are people that want to be jail. Once released, they find a way to go back. I believe this person from the cage would want to be back in the cage, or something similar to the cage. It feels normal to him/her. The harshness of life, is much for us "normal" people to bear. This person would be unable to deal with life outside the cage. Also, most reactions are from past experiences. Life would seem like a foreign film, without subtitles. Though, I believe it could be possible for this person to live without the cage, if him/her was in an abusive relationship. That "strangely enough" would make him/her feel safe. However, I highly doubt this person would be able to find a relationship because of his/her lack of basic communication skills. Personally, I would see no hope for this person, and without some sort of miracle, he/she would be better off dead. Sorry for not showing more compassion, but that’s just what I think. Take this for what it is... Perhaps better answers might come from Jews which were in WWII camps while children.

  6. #6
    HB Forum Owner SHATOUSHKA's Avatar
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    i appreciate all the posts so far.
    they are really great posts...
    very interesting [img]graemlins/thumbs_up.gif[/img]

  7. #7
    HB Forum Moderator Alex's Avatar
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    I don't understand your title, I view your whole topic post as typical childrearing.

    The only difference being that instead of always being in the cage, a chain is attached to the child, and every year, the chain is lengthened. The child is allowed to venture out of the cage, as far as the leash will allow.

    Eventually, the leash is untethered.

    The hope is before the leash is untethered, the child will have made connections with other similarily caged and tethered children to help them as they make their way in life.

  8. #8
    HB Forum Owner SHATOUSHKA's Avatar
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    er.....

    are you implying that 'normal childrearing' is
    up to par with daily beatings, verbal and social
    abuse by outsiders... as a child?!?!?!

  9. #9
    HB Forum Moderator Alex's Avatar
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    From the childs viewpoint, anything short of getting the child getting their way can be viewed as abuse by that child.

  10. #10
    HB Forum Owner SHATOUSHKA's Avatar
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    well, i'm not talking about semantics here....

    consider it literal beatings:
    belts, yard sticks, canes, utensils, etc


    *rolls eyes*

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